[Moshe Daniel]

sha fur wrote:

quote :

I am using structured, deionized, water and the variac is cranked up to at least 120 volts going into the Bridge rectifier. I\’m unsure exactly how many volts out of the bridge rectifier, but the amps is less than 300 milliamps. I am guessing there is resistance.

Deionized water is your problem.
It is the ions in water that bring conductivity to the water.
If you remove those ions, water becomes a highly resistant substance.
Use regular water, or water from a spring. It is alive and has ions.
At 120 volts, you\’ll be running at least 1 to 1.5 amps.

[Moshe Daniel]

sha fur wrote:

quote :

Is it still OK to us baking soda to increase amperage to water. Currently I have the variac cranked way up and getting <300ma. I read some information about using baking soda to increase amperage, and it was 4 years old. Just verifying it is OK to use baking soda.

Shane.

Hey there Shane.
Good to hear from you.

First a few questions.
a) what water are you using?
b) you\’re using the mains through the variac, right? So when you say, it\’s cranked way up, you mean it\’s at basically zero resistance, correct?

I have a much higher preference for KCl – Potassium Chloride, over baking soda.

Moshe

[Moshe Daniel]

Bryce Healy wrote:

quote :

Possibly relevant to this thread but I happened to find a AC/DC power adapter at a salvation army shop, it\’s DC output is 12V and 150mA. I spliced the ends to moe-joe cell with aligator clips and powered it up using a surge protector for safe and easy on/off, connect/disconnect use.
It has a similar warmth and feel to when I use a 12V lantern battery and I haven\’t felt any weirdness to it.

it probably has a lot of capacitors to smooth out the ripple. nice. Very nice and safe too. 12 volts 150ma, you could probably put on your tongue. just kidding. i wouldn\’t try that but safer than using anything from the mains.

quote :

It also doesn\’t appear to have any negative effects for the bismuth core or spheres, likely because it\’s such a low amperage. Interestingly though when I measure the potential across the terminals it reads out consistently around 15-16V, 3-4 volts higher than the adapter output!

i think that is standard for those types – like chargers will often charge at 14-15 too.

quote :

I am going to experiment with adding a ground wire to help filter any AC residue that maybe isn\’t noticeable but is still there. I\’m inspired to add a ground line from looking at some research with plants. A cut plant will have a much longer life span in a vase if a ground wire is added to it, because it will simulate a similar grounded/Earth connected environment for the plant to live in and allows for an electrical connection that the plant needs to live!

I know a moe-joe cell isn\’t a plant, but as a universal resonator/ oscillator it seems intuitive to give it a ground connection.

the ground is an awesome idea. fresh supply of electrons from the Earth. love. feedback on it too.

[Moshe Daniel]

Great. Let us know how it goes.

[Moshe Daniel]

sha fur wrote:

quote :

I just managed to acquire some parts for making a water recharging cell. I have most of the parts for the electrical part of the conditioning procedure and it seems I may have to *order* a capacitor. Moshe? You suggest a \”Capacitor of 450 uF (microfarads) and rated for at least 200 Volts.\” What lead you to the conclusion of making use of that particular capacitor with 450uf and +200 volts? Is it necessary to use one? What is the job of the capacitor in our particular situation?

Hey Sha Fur,

The capacitor is to smooth out the residue of AC ripple when you\’re using the bridge rectifier.
the value of 200volts is just a little overkill to make sure it covers the mains power voltage level.
The 450uf I really don\’t think has any significant value. it could be more or less. doesn\’t have to be exact.

Good luck!

[Moshe Daniel]

Here are Bryce\’s images. Wow Bryce. What a difference!!

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[Moshe Daniel]

sha fur wrote:

quote :

Is there a complete instructions file, that is current and available, on Moe-Joe Installation? Including anything that must be modified on the vehicle?

Not really, no. It\’d be a nice thing to have, eh?
I can think of some guidelines. I should write something up more officially.

eg Keep cell away from alternator.
Install onto positive crankcase ventilation (PCV) valve intake.
Then stuff on charging and keeping it charged.
You got me thinking. I\’ll put a post here and include instructions with moe-joe cell purchases.

quote :

Reason I am asking is that I believe I came across some \”potentially dated\” info about oxygen sensors and some sort of electrical device to bypass(?) the oxygen sensors? Since it was dated, and I found other other contradictory info about sensors, I left the oxygen sensors alone on my vehicle.

That\’s good that you left them alone. There have been some attempted tweaks but mostly just leaving trouble after with the sensors and not much for results.
What info are you referring to though?

quote :

I charged up some water via the 12 volt car battery(it was holding about a 1.2v charge for roughly 18 hours after being disconnected from the power source), put it in the Moe-Joe cell, and started driving. No noticeable improvements with mileage or performance, according to my onboard computer in the vehicle. Same mileage before and after.
Shane.

Now we have to troubleshoot.
Can you take a few pics of your installation? Post them in a reply here.

Where did you charge the water?
How is your cell in the car? did you do any precharging on that?

What car are you driving? Year? Make, model?

[Moshe Daniel]

sha fur wrote:

quote :

What kind of success did the VOLO produce for you, Moshe? I see no report of findings in this thread.

No success. I have yet to find any O2 sensor trick that works.
All the positive results we have had, or that I have heard of, have come from straight installation without any other tweaks.
However, that is not to say that ECU modification would not be helpful. This is an area with a lot of room for improvement, I am afraid.

[Moshe Daniel]

Roni Schmeling wrote:

quote :

How much water is placed in the cell? How do I control the consumption of this water?

You are speaking about the car kit. Fill the cell almost until full.
You will have the aluminum connector out the top, sealed, so if the level of the water rises, it will not overflow anywhere. so let\’s say like 95% full is good.

The consumption of the water should not diminish very much.
I drove a car from Florida to Texas which was 2150 Kms and we didn\’t have any loss of water volume. If we were making large volumes of HHO that would be different, but we\’re not.

quote :

In that water is added a corrosion inhibitor?

No, it is not necessary and it is not advised to put a corrosion inhibitor.

quote :

Where will the positive pole of the connection? The cell that I bought should have a protection on the positive pole as the picture on the website and did not come like that.

I don\’t provide any pole protections. Can you show me the picture you\’re speaking about? It\’s just a shrink wrap, plain and simple. The experimentor is responsible for that.

the positive pole of the cell is the outside short screw, this is connected to the inside of the 5\” outer sphere, and in turn it is connected to the positive pole of the battery. Some people are playing around and experimenting with connecting this part of the cell to the negative pole and connecting the positive battery to the inner sphere of the moe-joe cell. I think both are good ideas to experiment with now, and I have noticed a stronger healing response to the cell being hooked up +ve battery inside and negative outside the cell.

[Moshe Daniel]

Roni Schmeling wrote:

quote :

How many kilometers rotated I need to do make the electrical charging process of the cell and continuously rotate with the vehicle must do this procedure? I\’m thinking it prevents the use of that due to this complexity.

It\’s important that you do not charge the cell while the car is running or moving.
The cell can really mess up your electronic controls on your car.
If it is a very old car, it may not be such a problem.
But you want to have the water and cell nice and charged and you can keep it charged once /day for 3-5 minutes with the car battery before you drive.

quote :

Is It possible to charge this cell with water and sodium hydroxide to form an electrolyte?

I wouldn\’t use sodium hydroxide. I\’d use KOH – potassium hydroxide.
And yes, you can use an electrolyte. I\’ve played around with it.
You get a higher current with the 12 volt battery, but you do lose a little
\”clean and pureness\” of the water.

[Moshe Daniel]

James A.L. Cullumber wrote:

quote :

Day 20

About Day 20. Decided to take the cell out, to attempt to find out what is going on.

The mileage and the power seem to have gone to a normal level, not a level beyond.

Took out the water and found this.

the image didn\’t display properly.
here it is.

Wow. yeah. that\’s some pretty dirty water.

Like you said, it\’s good to precharge the water and clean it.
Or just filter that water, rinse the cell, and put that same water back in.

You can use shop towels to filter the water through a big funnel.
You\’re gonna lose some, but you can top it up with fresh water.

What do you think caused that?

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[Moshe Daniel]

James A.L. Cullumber wrote:
[quote]

quote :

I\’ve shut the pump off, turn on the car, let it run for 1 minute, and during that minute, there is a vacuum whining like it\’s trying to pump fuel that isn\’t there, like there is a secondary pump.

I\’m letting the car run idle, no movement due to the fact that every time I tap the gas pedal it sounds like it\’s choking and looking for a fuel that isn\’t there. So, the power is negligible for road conditions.

Seems like I need to search deeper on what Patrick J. Kelly says about such device. But from what he says is that it\’s very difficult and requires a lot of patience to charge the water to a viable solution in which it can make the can run on the water for more than what gasoline can provide. He said the water \”can be generated inside the Cell, but as the conditioning process usually generates an unwanted residue on top of the water and on the bottom of the Cell\”

If the conditioning process does make the water a more viable fuel source than gasoline, then I\’m going to need change my stance here.

You\’ll let me know how it goes and if you change your stance. 😉
I know there are many factors at play that can interfere, but in the end, I think the
method should be relatively simple.

quote :

But I must ask, does the Moe-Joe Cell need to be air-tight? Most people here got it water tight, I question if it needs to be air-tight?

Water-tight is better than airtight.
If it seals water, it should seal air.
Thing is, it has to be \”vacuum\” tight.
So there shouldn\’t be any air leaks, yes, no air leaks,
so that the vacuum of the engine can draw on the cell\’s water surface vapour.

quote :

where did you connect the tube from the cell to the engine?

As the picture shows, directly to the top of the Air Intake but on the other side of the filter.

ok thanks.

[Moshe Daniel]

James,
where did you connect the tube from the cell to the engine?

[Moshe Daniel]

James A.L. Cullumber wrote:

quote :

Okay

I must of done something wrong here. When I was driving a trailer ~280 lbs, it felt smooth. Then, I forgot to switch off the charging circuit, and when a relative used the car w/ the trailer to gather metal bars at a Metal Shop, he said that it felt no different from other times.

This sounds like it may be a \”Y factor\” issue.
Are you familiar with that?
Basically, the technology of the moe-joe cell has a lot to do with the energy of the user.
Some people negate the energies. Is the relative that used the car an \”open\” person? Or were they doubting?
I know this part sounds a little hokey, but I\’ve seen it with my own eyes.
I drove from Florida to Texas with a moe-joe cell installed.
And one of my friends and I, while driving, had a very positive effect on the cell,
but our other friend, when driving, basically had a \”negative\” effect – as in, even worse power and fuel mileage.

The \”knowing\” of a person seems to be important with the cell.

quote :

Took the car, and dropped off the metal, but along the way, it felt like I needed to give my car more gas in order to get to a good speed of around 60 MPH. Did a weight approximation, and found that it was around ~600 lbs.

Now, in the instructions, and videos they said that when your running your car, your to turn off the Charging circuit. I must ask, what happens when one doesn\’t turn it off?

it\’s a good question. It is a bit of an unknown.
What I do know is that the energy of the cell (neutrinos? scalar waves?) gets inside the electronics of the car and can cause wonkiness like the radio, speedometer, or other elements of the computer to not function properly.

quote :

Oh, and when I shut off my fuel pump and the charging circuit was off, I turn on the car, it was able to run, but not the greatest. Is the Moe-Joe cell good enough to make a car run independently from gasoline due to it\’s need of a very pure source of water or is it simply a fuel enhancer?

How long did you shut off the fuel pump for?

When you say, it was able to run but not the greatest, can you describe this?

I have never had or heard of fuel-less operation with the moe-joe cell.
I\’ve heard it, but not seen it with my own eyes, in the joe cell world.

quote :

I have read that the Joe Cell is capable of running the engine independently, but your the closest guy to go to when I wish to try it for myself.

It would be fantastic if you did get some lasting fuel-less operation.
I\’ve heard with the joe cell people that anyone who had fuel-less,
had a very hard time managing the vehicle. it was erratic and difficult to control.

[Moshe Daniel]

James A.L. Cullumber wrote:

quote :

quote :

James, that is excellent news. Thanks for sharing.

Can you tell us how you prepared the cell before installation?
What water did you use?
How did you charge the water?
How have you connected the cell to the chassis and the battery?

The water I used is tap water from a well.

I charged it by adding the water, capped it with the tube as shown, then flipped the switch that connects the positive to the cell.

I have not connected the cell the the chassis of the car, but I have connected the cell to the Negative of the battery. Did I miss an important step as such?

That\’s fine. The negative terminal of the battery is connected to the chassis of the car anyway, in more than one place, so what you\’ve done is alright.