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Broken Bismuth Core during cell assembly
updated 12 years, 5 months ago
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Although I was very careful assembling my MoeJoe Cell – and I certainly did not over-torque it – I noticed that it was not as solid as it should be and as it is shown in Daniel\’s assembly video.
So I disassembled it again to find the reason for it. Unfortunately I found a broken Bismuth core as shown below.
Is there any chance to repair it or do I need another one? 🙁
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hi there Robert,
first of all, my apologies for your broken core.
Unfortunately, as amazing as bismuth is, and it\’s my FAVOURITE metal, it is also quite soft and brittle.
i have tried to combat that with using the copper wire as a mesh for support and goop on the outside for both water seal and also support. however, sometimes, the cores will break. that\’s why we have to be gentle. even with your gentleness, it may have been too much for it.
this is not the first time a core has broken. but it can be repaired.so, here\’s what your options are.
put the parts of the core back together.
use a strong bonding material which is not too toxic, or at least won\’t be after it is cured (dried and hardened)
i use goop. a silicon can be used too.
you may even want to do 2 coatings.or, the other option, is to order another bismuth core.
try the first option first, and let us know how it went, ok?
you just basically need a firm central piece with the bismuth core there, and you\’re good!Moshe
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Hi Daniel,
first of all thank you for your immediate reply, I really appreciate your support!
Ok, I\’ll try to repair the core.
In my opinion the Bismuth core with its 2 threaded rods is more or less MoeJoe\’s backbone. For that reason it should be robust to a certain degree. The weak point is that your construction has 2 rods. Why don\’t you use just 1 longer through going threaded rod and fix the Bismuth core in the middle of that rod? This way the Bismuth would not be stressed by any torque or any other force and it is also located exactly in MoeJoe\’s center. Do you raise any objection to such a repair?Best regards, Robert.
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Robert Leistentritt wrote:
quote :Hi Daniel,first of all thank you for your immediate reply, I really appreciate your support!
Ok, I\’ll try to repair the core.
In my opinion the Bismuth core with its 2 threaded rods is more or less MoeJoe\’s backbone. For that reason it should be robust to a certain degree.I agree wholeheartedly with you.
quote :The weak point is that your construction has 2 rods. Why don\’t you use just 1 longer through going threaded rod and fix the Bismuth core in the middle of that rod? This way the Bismuth would not be stressed by any torque or any other force and it is also located exactly in MoeJoe\’s center. Do you raise any objection to such a repair?yes, i do have an objection, although i\’d like to first day i appreciate your good thought.
it is an excellent thought for the physical solidness and robustness of the cell. however, with one rod, the very centre of the cell, the very very centre, would be
iron, and we want a diamagnetic material to be present there. it can just be water, which requires no cores, and a sort of a screw on 2\” hemispheres onto each other, or the bismuth core, which is…
not that robust.I continue to ponder this problem and welcome any suggestions.
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quote :yes, i do have an objection, although i\’d like to first day i appreciate your good thought.
it is an excellent thought for the physical solidness and robustness of the cell. however, with one rod, the very centre of the cell, the very very centre, would be
iron, and we want a diamagnetic material to be present there.Ok, I understand. So what do you think about this idea? It should fulfill all requirements, is robust and has the Bismuth core in the very very center anyway. B)
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What a beautiful diagram. nice design!
I am a little unsure what the bismuth is being held by?i see a threaded pipe on the inside.
then you have threaded more threaded rod inside that?
is that right? -
Daniel, some other questions:
- what ist the plastic cap of the bolt for? Mine is much too big, so it does not snap on the electrical connection bolt of the outer sphere.
- which kind of goop do you use? I looked it up and found several diffenent types of goop
- is it necessary to disassemble MoeJoe completely sometimes e.g. for cleaning purpose? If it is, how often should this be done?
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Robert Leistentritt wrote:
quote :Daniel, some other questions:- what ist the plastic cap of the bolt for? Mine is much too big, so it does not snap on the electrical connection bolt of the outer sphere.
It is to ensure that the +ve electricity is \”seen\” only on the inner surface of the 5\” hemisphere.
otherwise, the electricity would focus a lot on the head of the screw, because it is so close.I use to include a little additional piece to allow for it to snap, but, it caused a lack of electrical connection with the head of the screw.
i put a small amount of goop glue and the head stays on fine.quote :- which kind of goop do you use? I looked it up and found several diffenent types of goop
I use plumber\’s goop or household goop.
either one works well.quote :- is it necessary to disassemble MoeJoe completely sometimes e.g. for cleaning purpose? If it is, how often should this be done?
I normally keep it assembled for cleaning.
i fill the cell up and empty it out 3 times with decent water, and then let it drip dry for an hour, and then refill it with my good charged water. -
quote :otherwise, the electricity would focus a lot on the head of the screw, because it is so close.
I thought as much 😉
quote :I use plumber\’s goop or household goop.Thank you for that information. You know, this kind of glue is hard to get in Europe. But it\’s a minor problem for me because I\’m often to Canada or the US respectively, so I will buy one there at my visit next week. 🙂
quote :I normally keep it assembled for cleaning.
i fill the cell up and empty it out 3 times with decent water, and then let it drip dry for an hour, and then refill it with my good charged water.That\’s perfect. Because in this case I thought up a simple suggestion for improvement. In order to detour the forces from the core to the inner sphere, I will fix the 2 halves of the inner sphere together by means of my inverter melding machine. 3 dots should be sufficient and in case of – it will be possible to disassemble the sphere without major damage. See following updated sketch
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Hi Robert,
What is a melding machine? I am not familiar with that.
Can you post a picture here of it and let us know what it does, how it operates?Moshe
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Hi Daniel,
you will get a lot of results if you google \”wig melding\” or \”tig melding\”. There are also a lot of youtube videos available.
By means of an electrical arc you produce enough heat to meld materials like stainless steel. An inert gas like Argon protects the weld puddle and asures a high quality stainless connection.Regards, Robert
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Robert,
I don\’t recommend doing that.
first of all, you won\’t be able to pull apart the 2\” spheres IN CASE something happens, like you forget the cell is chargingandyou leave for a week to the Bahamas.
Come back and it\’s all mush inside and you need a deep clean.
Secondly, in my understanding, welding the steel changes its properties, and you\’ll have an unbalanced steel at the 2\” – some of it may even be strongly ferromagnetic – capable of attracting a magnet. this is not desired. -
How about inclosing the bismuth for instance into a copper or ssteel vessel in between the threaded rods.
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gerard dahan wrote:
quote :How about inclosing the bismuth for instance into a copper or ssteel vessel in between the threaded rods.I wouldn\’t put steel into the centre with the core. it\’s not the right energy for the core.
the copper could work if it was coated / insulated in silicone since, it erodes quickly in the electrical situation of the cell.I like the copper suggestion and will consider how to implement it. thank you Gerard.
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I guess I didn\’t make it very clear, not steel but ssteel(stainless steel)
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