Nu-Humanity for a New Earth Forums Joe Cell James Goss\’ \”Unit Charge\” Joe cell theory

  • James Goss\’ \”Unit Charge\” Joe cell theory

     Rob Eklund updated 12 years ago 2Members · 28 Posts
  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    May 25, 2012 at 2:57 am

    Dear Friends,

    For years, I have been reading James Goss\’ posts on the Joe cell forums with quite a lot of interest. He is an excellent researcher and is very thorough in his investigations of the Joe cell.
    Recently, one of our moe-joe cell users and fellow Nutopians – Chris McGuire – has had some pretty amazing experiences with his moe-joe cell, which, to me, may point to some of things James Goss is discovering and pointing to with his joe cell theory he calls \”Unit Charge.\”

    Check out what James writes in his research about unit charge and then read on Chris McGuire\’s post (which is also available in the moe-joe cell section under the thread called \”Questions from Chris McGuire\” – this thread is here-
    http://www.nutopia.cc/forum/moe-joe-cell/296-questions-from-chris-mcguire?limit=10&start=30)
    it certainly points to the ability for the cell to influence objects at a distance – especially when they\’ve previously been \”spun up\” already by the cell. this, i feel is key -it provides the sympathetic resonance for greater communication.

    James Goss
    <>

    Now from Chris McGuire
    <>

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 4, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    James Goss\’ response:

    Hello Moshe,

    I would like to test one of your cells for unit charge. Its sphere shape seems to be ideal for developing charge. I will e-mail you to get the details.

    Thanks for sharing C.M.\’s post, it was very interesting; especially the influence his cell had on his household and truck. Not being familiar with the moe-joe cell I am only guessing, but I would say that his cell being supplied with a 6 volt battery could easily develop several thousand volts of unit charge. It will all depend on how well the cell and battery are isolated from earth ground. If a positive unit charge is being developed, negative ions will be a byproduct of the cell. It would almost be the equivalent of C.M. living under a waterfall.

    Negative ions make most people feel good, me included. While unit charge tests are underway, a small fan moving vapor from the cell fills the surroundings with negative charge. Like C.M. said, \”Sleep lately has been great and fulfilling.\” Unit charge can easily charge dust and dirt particles, thus I can understand how particles might be attracted from crevices.

    Thanks,
    James

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 4, 2012 at 12:20 pm

    More research from James Goss on Unit Charge

    Hello all,

    Recently I experimented with using a lower input voltage to kick off a Joe cell\’s unit charge; initially I was using 24 volts. In the most recent set of tests a 12 volt battery providing .9 amps of current through the cell was used. More time was required to reach maximum charge, but the 12 volt input placed 13,000 volts of unit charge on the cell in 45 minutes. Rate of charge was 288.8 volts per minute.

    When unit charge reaches the neighborhood of 5,000 volts the cell has the ability to produce a small electrical discharge between it and earth grounded objects. When a hand or any other ground referenced object is placed near the cell an electrical arc can be initiated. Corona discharge also begins to occur around 5,000 volts, thus for voltages above 5,000 volts the cap terminal needs to have round smooth edges to help prevent corona from bleeding off the charge. I normally use either a round sphere or toroid shaped terminal for the overall best results.

    Any shape metal cell cap, be it flat round or square, tends to increase unit charge to some degree. It first appeared that a cell cap, which acts as a voltage multiplier, needed to be of a precise design and location. It now looks as if unit charge will respond to any shape cell cap. A metal plate can be placed on its side in a vertical position instead of a flat position atop the cell, and voltage gain will be near the same as that of a flat positioned plate. Basically if a cell is physically touching metal, voltage gain will occur. When I say voltage gain I am referring to a cell developing more unit charge than it would normally produce if no metal cap is in use.

    Here is something I recently come across: The metal cell cap can be placed underneath the cell with the cell sitting on it and voltage gain still occurs. It does not seem to matter how large the metal object is that the cell is sitting on, the object becomes charged. On the other hand, using a cap on the top and bottom at the same time seems to reduce overall unit charge. This indicates it\’s not only the mass of the metal in contact with a cell that enhances unit charge, shaping of the electric field surrounding a cell is also a factor.

    Next I reduced the 12 volts for a current of .75 amps through the cell. Referenced to a ten minute charge time, unit charge reached 3,600 volts. This was a 360 volt per minute charge rate. Reduced down to .4 amps, unit charge reached 2,400 volts in ten minutes, a charge rate of 240 volts per minute. At .2 amps a charge rate of 120 volts per minute produced 1,200 volts in ten minutes. At .1 amp 600 volts was reached, a charge rate of 60 volts per minute. At .05 amps a ten minute charge produced 250 volts, 25 volts per minute. Finally, at .02 amps unit charge reached 80 volts, 8 volts per minute.

    Unit charge appears to vary almost directly with cell current. Overlooking measurement inaccuracies unit charge in all probability does vary directly with cell current. With lower value currents most bubbles become too small to see, but unit charge continues. I decided to use a 9 volt transistor battery as the input voltage. Unit charge reached 2,800 volts in 20 minutes, a 140 volt per minute charge rate.

    Thanks,
    James Goss

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 8, 2012 at 3:41 am

    from Moshe via e-mail
    \”what is coming from this for me, is that the cell may need to be connected to a 2nd battery in the car – once that is not connected to the chassis. this may make a big difference.
    have to experiment with this now.\”

    My comeent.
    This is kind of what I was thinking, cell and battery isolated from the truck, connected only by the tube. The metal of the car should pick up a charge anyway just by being in the area. (If my guess is right).

    In my truck there is a ton of room under the hood near the radiator on the drivers side. (enough so I can stand there with the engine running)

    I was thinking of locating the cell there, next to radiator, below carb level, from there the tube would be running upwards and in a straight line to a point on either the manifold, or the carb.

    Do you recommend a vacuume set up, or a blind plug to try first?

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 10, 2012 at 2:42 am

    Rob Eklund wrote:

    quote :

    from Moshe via e-mail
    \”what is coming from this for me, is that the cell may need to be connected to a 2nd battery in the car – once that is not connected to the chassis. this may make a big difference.
    have to experiment with this now.\”

    My comeent.
    This is kind of what I was thinking, cell and battery isolated from the truck, connected only by the tube. The metal of the car should pick up a charge anyway just by being in the area. (If my guess is right).

    this following brief dialogue between mysself and James Goss addresses this further:

    Moshe: \”James, didn\’t you say the cell has to be connected from the cap to the outer sphere? is that electrically connected, or can it just be sitting there, close?\”

    James: Unit charge does need reference to the cell\’s outer can. However, it is not necessary to have a standard electrical connection. At this time I am using four 3 inch plastic clamps clipped to the outer can. The cap sets on top of the clamps. Even though they are plastic they connect the cap to the cell so that surface charge reaches the cap. As long as the cap is touching the cell, or in contact with something that is touching the cell, the cap charges.

    So… interesting. if the outer sphere / plate of the cell is contacting some aspect of the chassis, without it being an electrical connection, the
    charge will build up in the chassis…

    quote :

    I was thinking of locating the cell there, next to radiator, below carb level, from there the tube would be running upwards and in a straight line to a point on either the manifold, or the carb.

    Do you recommend a vacuume set up, or a blind plug to try first?

    DEFINITELY vacuum. i wouldn\’t bother with blind plug.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 11, 2012 at 10:22 pm

    I am just curious, do you know if he ever has checked the area of the unit charge field for a frequency? I am beginning to think (at least in the case I have) that the bowl is serving a type of antenna/reflector combination. If there is a frequency to it, it should be possible to somewhat tune it by the size, shape, and position of the \”antenna\” in relation to the cell,to find a better resonance with the truck/car/motorcycle, or even for healing purposes.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 12, 2012 at 12:14 am

    I am just curious, do you know if he ever has checked the area of the unit charge field for a frequency? I am beginning to think (at least in the case I have) that the bowl is serving a type of antenna/reflector combination. If there is a frequency to it, it should be possible to somewhat tune it by the size, shape, and position of the \”antenna\” in relation to the cell,to find a better resonance with the truck/car/motorcycle, or even for healing purposes.

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 12, 2012 at 1:38 am

    From James Goss – Unit Charging a Vehicle:

    \”Hello all,

    Unit charge has a characteristic of not always reaching the same charge value each and every time. Temperature and humidity has a lot of influence on charge buildup. During my first encounter with unit charge I witnessed some relatively high charge values being generated by an unloaded Joe cell. It was then several experiments later before I again witnessed charge values in the 15,000 volt range. Thus this same unpredictable charge pattern will probably be normal when charging a vehicle or other large objects.

    One of the interesting things about a cell\’s unit charge is that it charges everything in contact with the cell that is not earth grounded. Charge is daisy chained outward from the cell through non conductors as well as conductors. Everything inside the vehicle also receives charge. I haven\’t checked this yet, but I believe this would also include any passengers and their clothing.

    In the most recent experiment I determined that an earth isolated vehicle will become electrically charged if a Joe cell and its battery are placed anywhere on the vehicle. The cell doesn\’t have to be placed near the engine in order to electrically charge the engine. In this latest test the cell was placed on a wood support above the engine with no connections to the cell; other than the cell resting on the wood support. Charge was transferred to all areas of the vehicle and reached voltage values near 1,400 volts in three hours. The cell and battery were then placed at several different locations for testing, on the truck\’s tailgate, inside the vehicle, and on top of the vehicle. All locations produced basically the same unit charge values.

    The outer cell container for the last two vehicle charging tests has been glass. I have used metal outer containers in previous experiments and both metal and glass seem to allow basically the same unit charge value to develop. However, this is not true for an outer container built with plastic such as PVC. It has a negative affinity and loves to become charged negative. It likes to accept electrons instead of giving them up.

    One recent test was using a 6 inch diameter PVC outer container. The PVC had a negative charge already on it, so the positive unit charge had to overcome this before the cell could go positive. Immediately before this test I used the same cell in a glass container. Unit charge reached near 1,000 volts in 2 minutes, and 2,300 volts in 5 minutes. With the PVC container unit charge did occur, but it only reached 250 volts in 10 minutes. Unit charge does not appear to work well with a PVC outer container. This was only one test, but I believe it will prove to be valid.

    After completing the above test I made a modification in the isolation technique being used. The vehicle\’s tires were still resting on the same isolation platforms, but now the cell was also isolated from the vehicle by placing 4 inches of styrofoam beneath it. So now the vehicle is isolated from earth ground and the cell is isolated from the vehicle. The cell is now able to charge without having a direct load placed on it and can charge much faster to greater values.

    With this setup the cell itself generated 1,000 volts in 1 minute, and 4,800 volts in 10 minutes. While the cell was charging, the vehicle chassis also received charge even though it was isolated from the cell. After 10 minutes the chassis voltage was 270 volts. This was about 200 volts more than when the cell was connected directly to the chassis for the same amount of charge time.\”

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 12, 2012 at 1:40 am

    Rob Eklund wrote:

    quote :

    I am just curious, do you know if he ever has checked the area of the unit charge field for a frequency? I am beginning to think (at least in the case I have) that the bowl is serving a type of antenna/reflector combination. If there is a frequency to it, it should be possible to somewhat tune it by the size, shape, and position of the \”antenna\” in relation to the cell,to find a better resonance with the truck/car/motorcycle, or even for healing purposes.

    Hi Rob,
    I don\’t know about frequency measurements.
    but if you read the previous posts, and this latest one, you will see that all objects charge up regardless of shape and size,and even whether or not they are \”classically\” oriented to be conductive.
    it\’s quite amazing…
    I think we\’re getting closer here.

    Especially where he says that the engine got charged even though the cell was insulated from it.

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 12, 2012 at 2:01 am

    More info from James Goss on the joe cell and unit charging a vehicle – (this one actually precedes the previous post)

    This post is in reference to electrically charging a vehicle with a Joe cell. Isolating the chassis of a vehicle from earth ground allows an electrical charge to be placed on the vehicle. Like any metal, a vehicle chassis can be electrically charged and then retain the charge if there is no earth ground reference to bleed off the charge. To isolate a vehicle from earth ground requires insulating the tires from resting on earth. Wood and other insulators suitable for insulating at low voltages will not provide the necessary isolation for voltages in the thousands of volts.

    In a past experiment I placed a sheet of 2 inch thick high density styrofoam under each tire. Above and below each sheet of styrofoam a sheet of 3/4 inch plywood was used to protect the foam. Styrofoam provides adequate isolation to prevent current flow between the vehicle and earth when a high voltage charge is placed on a vehicle.

    Most all tires today are chemically treated so they will be electrically conductive when higher voltages are generated by static buildup. Being static rated the tires will not allow charge to build up on a vehicle\’s chassis. If a positive or negative charge tries to develop on a vehicle, the conductive tires allows electrons to flow between the earth and chassis, which neutralizes the charge almost immediately.

    In the previous test for earth ground reference I used induction techniques to place charge on a vehicle. It proved an earth isolated vehicle could easily become charged and retains the charge for quite some time. It also proved that a vehicle with static rated tires, which gives the vehicle earth ground reference, could not be charged.

    I decided to setup the experiment again to see if unit charge from a Joe cell would be able to place a high voltage charge on an earth isolated chassis. The vehicle was the same as in the first experiment, a 1993 Ford F-150. I had been thinking for some time that conductivity of the tires would probably vary depending on the environment of the vehicle. Factors such as humidity, temperature, moisture on the ground, and whether the vehicle was parked or in motion.

    This time instead of using induction to place charge on the vehicle I used a high voltage capacitor charged with 5,000 volts to begin with. Touching one terminal of the charged capacitor to the chassis and leaving the other terminal open would allow limited charge to be placed on the chassis. While the tires were still in contact with earth, the chassis would not retain any charge at all. This demonstrates how effective static tires are in preventing voltage buildup on a vehicle.

    The test vehicle had been parked in the same location for several days. My idea was to measure temperature of the tires and rims, and then drive the vehicle out on the road to see if a temperature increase would perhaps remove moisture from the tires; reducing their conductivity. The chosen test tire measured 93 degrees on the tire and 85 of the rim while parked. After a 7 mile drive the temperature increased to 100 degrees on the tire
    and 94 on the rim. This did make a small difference in charge storage. Now the chassis was showing some ability to store charge for one or two seconds before it was neutralized. Either a negative or positive charge could be placed on the chassis just long enough for a surface voltmeter to register its discharge. Overall there was not that much improvement.

    For this experiment instead of starting with styrofoam under the tires I decided to use a 1/2 inch thick hard rubber sheet. Each rubber sheet was sandwiched between two sheets of 3/4 inch plywood for protection. This makes the platform 2 inches thick. It\’s more difficult to place 2 inch thick styrofoam underneath the tires than it is the 1/2 inch thick rubber sheets. The styrofoam platform is 3.5 inches thick, making a ramp necessary to drive up on. When one end of the charged capacitor was placed on the chassis, charge was transferred, but did not remain any longer than it did when the tires were directly on earth. Thus there was no need to connect a Joe cell for testing charge transfer while using the rubber.

    Next I set up the high density styrofoam platforms. With the vehicle atop the platforms I used the capacitor to do a quick test to see if charge could be retained. Connecting the positive end of the capacitor to the chassis transferred near 1,500 volts to the chassis. The charge remained after the capacitor was removed so I knew the cell might be able to charge the vehicle. I reconnected the positive end of the capacitor and this time I touched the open negative end with my finger to balance the capacitor. Charge transfer was now near 4,000 volts positive to the chassis. This value could be measured anywhere on the vehicle, including the tires.

    Next I discharged the vehicle and recharged it with a negative charge. Connecting the negative end of the capacitor to the chassis and leaving the positive end open. Negative charge was transferred to the vehicle and the value was also near 1,500 volts, equal to that of the previous positive charge. Touching the open positive end of the capacitor also increased the charge to near 4,000 volts. Both the positive and negative charges commence dissipating a few minutes after the capacitor was disconnected. However, the capacitor was only connected for a few seconds, while longer charge times might increase charge retention.

    Next I prepared the cell for charging the vehicle. It was set atop the engine on a 16 inch square metal plate. The plate was making electrical contact with the ground system of the vehicle. The 12 volt charging battery was placed adjacent to the cell on the same metal plate. The cell had its normal top cap in place and no other connections were made. The vehicle\’s hood was open, engine not running, and a small fan placed three feet from the vehicle to clear vapor from the cell. When the cell was energized by its 12 volt battery, no charge materialized on the chassis. After about 3 minutes a positive charge appeared. A few more minutes passed and the charge measured 60 volts. After a total of 10 minutes the charge was at 78 volts. Five more minutes it was at 136 volts. Thus it was now steadily increasing in value. After a total of 60 minutes the charge was at 384 volts. After 2 hours the charge was almost 1,000 volts and still climbing. This was an average charge rate of about 8 volts per minute. However, the charge rate was not linear.

    I only had two hours to run the experiment so I needed to shut down. Before I disconnected the cell I thought I would quickly touch the chassis to see if the field was as sensitive to touch like it normally is when only the cell itself is being charged. To my surprise nothing happened, the field did not collapse and the charge remained at its same value. I then touched the chassis in several locations, about 3 seconds each. The charge only decreased a small amount. Response of the charge was completely different from that of previous experiences I have had with the cell. The vehicle did not want to readily give up its charge. If I am not mistaken the charge has the ability to slightly build back up after being loaded. I will have to check this next time.

    The increased charging time appears to add to the ampacity ability of the charge. The cell itself basically has no ampacity at all. I have mentioned several times in earlier posts about how sensitive the field is, and that it seems to collapse at a blink of an eye. Once the large metal mass of the vehicle becomes charged, in this case positive, it has the ability to accept or furnish many more electrons than a cell acting alone is capable of. It\’s not only the metal that becomes charged, everything on the vehicle charges to basically the same value. This includes all plastics and other non metal components, even the window glass.

    Normally when this cell is on a workbench and charged in the neighborhood of 10,000 volts, it produces a field that can be measured out to 12 feet or so from the cell. When the charge on this vehicle was near 1,000 volts the field also reached out 12 feet or more. Next test I will allow the vehicle to charge for a longer time to see what its maximum charge value will be.

    I believe the most important part of this experiment was that current ampacity of a cell is greatly amplified by the size of the object being charged. I had previously charged large objects with this cell, but nothing compared to the size of this vehicle. With these objects I had not noticed any difference in the ability of the field to maintain itself when touched by hand, it would always collapse instantly, and the cell would have to recharge from scratch. I can see where this amplification factor could perhaps give a cell more possibilities.

    About midway through the test the charge rate drastically dropped off. The cell water had dropped below the top of the cylinders and the bubbles could not complete their normal path from cathode to anode on the surface of the water. Standing on styrofoam I added water while the charge was in progress. Unit charge did not decrease in value, and the charge rate went back to normal.

    Working up to this experiment I was a little leery about connecting thousands of volts to my truck\’s chassis. Could it possibly damage the onboard electronic systems? Even though a single point charge propagating to all engine and body parts throughout the chassis theoretically should not create current flow through components, I was still skeptical. Also I was concerned about the gas tank and possibilities of arcing internal to the tank. There were no problems encountered.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 12, 2012 at 4:44 am

    I have heard that thunderstorms can greatly effect the way a joe cell \”in this case\” works with a vehical. I wonder if that would have something to do with the earth voltages being higher? I have read somewhere that during a thunderstorm the earth can be charged in the area of 2000 volts per square meter.

    I wonder if that would be high enough to negate the \”bleeding\” voltage to ground long enough for the unit charge to \”settle in\”?

    I was curious about a frequency to see if it may tie into some of the work that Tesla did on wireless power and energy transmission. Along with some of the observations by Schumann on earth frequencies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 12, 2012 at 2:34 pm

    Rob Eklund wrote:

    quote :

    I have heard that thunderstorms can greatly effect the way a joe cell \”in this case\” works with a vehical. I wonder if that would have something to do with the earth voltages being higher? I have read somewhere that during a thunderstorm the earth can be charged in the area of 2000 volts per square meter.

    I wonder if that would be high enough to negate the \”bleeding\” voltage to ground long enough for the unit charge to \”settle in\”?

    these are great points and questions.
    Surely, this must have something to do with cell operation. we have the +vely charged atmosphere / sky, and the negatively charged earth… and then we have the unit charge of the vehicle, which is +ve in reference to earth ground.
    I am not sure yet where this is leading…
    it\’s on the \”tip of my tongue.\”

    quote :

    I was curious about a frequency to see if it may tie into some of the work that Tesla did on wireless power and energy transmission. Along with some of the observations by Schumann on earth frequencies.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schumann_resonances

    not sure how that applies right now with this unit charge stuff.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 12, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    I was thinking that while getting the vehicle prepared for the cell, it may be possible to raise the earth refence to that of the cell to temporarily discourage it draining.

    I have read about a few ways to get power levels similar to the ones he is talking about in his unit charge, directly from the earth, only apart from novelty this would be the first real use for it I have heard of.

    From what I understand, once the charge gets set in it is not nearly as fragile. In the case of my truck the only real electronics to be worried about getting damaged is the radio, so it may be worth a try.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 12, 2012 at 5:25 pm

    I was thinking that while getting the vehicle prepared for the cell, it may be possible to raise the earth refence to that of the cell to temporarily discourage it draining.

    I have read about a few ways to get power levels similar to the ones he is talking about in his unit charge, directly from the earth, only apart from novelty this would be the first real use for it I have heard of.

    From what I understand, once the charge gets set in it is not nearly as fragile. In the case of my truck the only real electronics to be worried about getting damaged is the radio, so it may be worth a try.

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 14, 2012 at 3:27 pm

    More from James Goss, in response to my questions:

    Hello Moshe,

    quote :

    \” It seems a well operating cell will be able to keep a certain amount of charge on the car, while its charge also continues to trickle out… or is it the discharge is a more fast and complete one rather than a trickle?\”

    The tires I\’ve tested thus far tends to clear the charge rather fast. Discharge rate does tend to slow after the tires heat up from driving, so out on the road they may allow charge to be retained at certain levels.

    quote :

    \”Is there any sort of tire one could use that would isolate the car from earth ground?\”

    I\’m trying to locate a source for tires that are not static rated. It\’s the carbon content added to the tires, known as carbon black, that makes them conductive. I don\’t know exactly when tire makers initially introduced carbon to tires, but they have been doing this for quite some time. The added carbon extends the life of a tire, and some brand tires have as much as 30 percent carbon black added. It also makes the tire black in color.

    It seems that carbon black gets used up in the process of converting UV rays into heat, which is how they protect the tires. When this takes place a tire turns gray in color. It may be that after the carbon black becomes expended, older tires will have increased insulation value.

    I was told that in the last few years tire manufacturers have been developing a low rolling resistance, or rolling friction, tire for improving gas mileage. Adding carbon black increases rolling friction so they are reducing the amount added. Hence newer tires may allow slightly higher voltages to develop on a vehicle chassis.

    I recently saw where a vehicle\’s tires were replaced. The owner of the vehicle purchased the tires from a discount tire center that import tires from china. The owner immediately noticed his radio had a great amount of interference. The trouble was traced to the tires. This is the type of tires I\’m looking for.

    Thanks,
    James

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 14, 2012 at 4:22 pm

    Would the size of the tire make a difference, I am using 44\” tires on 16.5\” rims? That is a lot of rubber to go through.

    On a second line of thought, do you think a ceramic coated spacer between the brakes and the rim, and on the lugnuts might help? ceramic has been used as a high voltage insulater for a long time and it would take the heat from the brakes easily. I know it wouldn\’t totally solve the issue, but it may ease it somewhat.

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 15, 2012 at 3:22 am

    Rob Eklund wrote:

    quote :

    Would the size of the tire make a difference, I am using 44\” tires on 16.5\” rims? That is a lot of rubber to go through.

    On a second line of thought, do you think a ceramic coated spacer between the brakes and the rim, and on the lugnuts might help? ceramic has been used as a high voltage insulater for a long time and it would take the heat from the brakes easily. I know it wouldn\’t totally solve the issue, but it may ease it somewhat.

    James Goss has used many material which were surprisingly not good insulators in this business of \”unit charge.\” they would not let any apparent current pass, but there is something else about insulating against unit charge.

    my hunch is that your measure of ceramic and thicker rubber on the tires would help, to a certain degree, but probably wouldn\’t eliminate the problem.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 15, 2012 at 4:19 am

    I wouldn\’t think either or both even would solve it, just an attempt to stack resistors in a way.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 16, 2012 at 11:17 pm

    One other idea, I am going to go out to a craft store to buy some sheets of pvc and a roll of acetate. If we layer either pvc, or acetate sheets with aluminum foil it would make a high voltage capacitor.

    If we put that under the cell (or truck tires)with the + end connected to a corona wire. the – end is what is have to play with to figure out, do you think it would go to earth ground, under the cell(or the tires), or a lower corona wire relative to the \”+\”, just around the base?

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 20, 2012 at 6:32 pm

    Well I tried the aluminum foil inside page protectors (plastic sleeves that school papers go in).

    It did indeed have a big effect on how the cell felt, but I cant say it was a good one. It did build up a charge my arm hairs would stand up when near it (like walking in front of a crt tv screen). But it did not feel \”good\” to be around if that makes sense.

    Right now I am not sure if the materials need to change, how it is applied needs to,or if if just isn\’t a good idea, my first guess is to get rid of the plastic in favor of glass, or thick paper. glass should be a better insulator so I will start there.

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    June 21, 2012 at 4:12 am

    Rob Eklund wrote:

    quote :

    Well I tried the aluminum foil inside page protectors (plastic sleeves that school papers go in).

    It did indeed have a big effect on how the cell felt, but I cant say it was a good one. It did build up a charge my arm hairs would stand up when near it (like walking in front of a crt tv screen). But it did not feel \”good\” to be around if that makes sense.

    I don\’t like the feeling of any aluminum around the cell or any orgone acumulator. it blocks the energy and also has a very \”tinny\” feel to it, especially in the foil form.

    quote :

    Right now I am not sure if the materials need to change, how it is applied needs to,or if if just isn\’t a good idea, my first guess is to get rid of the plastic in favor of glass, or thick paper. glass should be a better insulator so I will start there.

    i suggest acrylic. that is even better than glass.
    expensive though.
    and thicker is better too.
    ideally, i wouldn\’t use aluminum either.
    and the plastic is also not great for the feeling of the energy produced.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    June 21, 2012 at 4:22 am

    Ok i do have a 4×4 sheet of plexiglass at 1/4 inch thick. It should be acrylic. I think I have a roll of shim stock around here somewhere that is 316 stainless at .004\” I\’ll see if I can cut them into 12\” squares (plexi) an 11\” squares (stainless).

    At least there was a noticible effect, the corona wire I am using is also stainless (TiG welding wire) held up on glass rods. for the first try positive over the cell, negative just off the ceramic table at the base.

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    July 9, 2012 at 3:53 pm

    Latest from James Goss on the Unit Charge for Joe Cell – which may also have some implications and reflections for our Swirlers. Check it out:

    quote :

    Hello all,

    What happens to a Joe cell\’s unit charge when the cell is placed on an engine having earth reference, which is the case for all vehicles? Although a cell has the ability to generate thousands of volts while earth isolated, with an earth reference unit charge appears to not exist. If viewed from a different prospective, it can be seen that having an earth reference might be an advantage. Because a cell is not displaying high values of positive unit charge does not signify the unit charge process is not continuing.

    High values of unit charge will not be generated by a cell installed in a vehicle due to conductivity of the tires. However, since an earth ground reference is bleeding charge off, this indicates a circuit between earth and cell does exist. This also indicates that a cell\’s unit charge process is still in operation on a vehicle having earth reference, even though high voltage is not being generated by the cell. Energy will flow between earth and cell as long as unit charge is trying to develop. With a positive unit charge the direction of flow for bleeder current is from earth to cell. Without constant energy flowing between the two, positive unit charge develops. Thus it\’s logical that unit charge must maintain a bleeder current between earth and cell, since high voltage is not developed.

    Since I first witnessed a Joe cell\’s unit charge, I have noticed that each time unit charge is produced by the cell it\’s never the same value. As an example: One time it might reach 1,500 volts, the next time 500 volts, next time 10,000 volts, and so on. It is certainly unpredictable, and at times the cell can have several good runs in a row. Once charge approaches its maximum value for that particular run, the cell seems to give up and charge remains near that value for the rest of the run.

    Apparently when unit charge reaches a certain positive value on a given run, negative ions leaving the cell water are attracted back to the cell\’s high positive charge value. At this time there is no additional positive charge placed on the cell. If the fan removing vapor from the cell has its speed increased, the charging process resumes until the cell stalls again.

    I recall that water fountains used for generating negative ions will only produce ions for extended periods of time if the pump motor is referenced to earth ground, as it is on a 120 volt AC pump motor. Ground reference within the AC line bleeds off positive charge buildup in the water so as to not attract negative ions that have already been released.

    If batteries are used as the electrical source for a water fountain pump motor, the fountain will supply negative ions for a short period of time and then stop altogether, due to negative ions returning to the water. With water fountains and waterfalls it is to some extent the evaporation process which produces negative ions. This same process is occurring in Joe cells, but electrolysis greatly enhances the process.

    Thus having ground reference allows a cell\’s unit charge process to continue even though no high voltage is produced. As long as a cell is releasing negative ions from the cell water\’s surface, energy must be flowing between earth and cell to keep the unit charge process near a balanced state. Balanced in this case implies the number of negative charges leaving a cell by way of enhanced evaporation is equal to the positive charges neutralized by way of earth ground. As long as earth bleeder current prevents the positive unit charge value from becoming excessive, a Joe cell should constantly generate negative ions while electrolysis is active.

    Thanks,
    James Goss

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    July 10, 2012 at 1:16 pm

    Just curious, have you ever heard of anyone running a Joe cell in the area of a Kelvin thunderstorm?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelvin_water_dropper

    I think that the effects may be loosly related

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    July 11, 2012 at 2:55 am

    Rob,

    You and my friend Tophur, also here on Nutopia, think alike. he actually tried that on the Moe-joe cell.
    the problem is that the discharges are so infrequent.
    it probably would have some effect on the unit charge…
    but it didn\’t seem to do much in terms of charging.

    i\’ve tried charging with high voltages, and wasn\’t impressed with the results.
    never tested \”unit charge\” though.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    July 11, 2012 at 3:18 am

    I was more interested in having the thunderstorm make more of an ion cloud, of sorts. basically have one set up but not to have the discharge part happen.

  • Moshe Daniel

    Member
    July 11, 2012 at 3:20 am

    Oh I see.
    that is something we haven\’t tried.
    Sounds interesting.
    I\’d like to hear about it.

  • Rob Eklund

    Member
    July 11, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    What I had in mind was a small scale simulation of the conditions during a thunderstorm, since that seems to be when the cell is most active.

    If you built a Kelvins thunderstorm, that was itself very well isolated so the arc doesnt happen, and connected the leads to a pair of corona wires just outside of the \”edge\” of the joe cells field I think it may make a sort of feedback loop between the two.

    I think I have how the Kelvin thunderstorm works, but I have not made one before, it would seem possible to keep it entirely isolated from the electrical grid. And depending on the speed of the drips and size of the containers you could run one for quite some time even if you just used a bucket to fill them.

    From what I have read, on start up the positve and negative of the thunderstorm are random, if that is true I dont think a direct connection between the two would be a good idea.

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